[Scummvm-devel] Windows console

[Max Horn]

Hi all, Travis.

Am 26.10.2010 um 00:58 schrieb Travis Howell:

> On 26/10/2010 2:51 AM, Max Horn wrote:
>> yesterday, we had yet another feature request from a Windows user for not showing a DOS console window with ScummVM by default, see here<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=418823&aid=3093800&group_id=37116>. (Before you ask for details, please read to the end.)
>> 
>> This was (as so often in the past) quickly closed and rejected by Travis. However, I decided to reopen the issue, and have a discussion on this on a larger scale. The subject has been brought up before, but I was never satisfied with the result of the (usually very limited, brief and one-sided) discussion.
> 
> Would you stop spreading this mis-information, there has only been two 
> feature requests (#1093939 in 2005 and #3093800 in 2010) which I closed 
> over the years, and only two topics (2879 and 9486) on the forum, which 
> I never even commented on.

Indeed, it appears I *was* saying incorrect things, specifically by suggesting that you had quickly rejected similar requests in the past. As Travis correctly pointed out, this is not the case

I sincerely apologize for that. Travis, I did not mean to besmirch your good reputation, and feel very bad about; I should have done proper research before claiming anything like that. Any ad-hominem attacks help us nothing, and only cause bad feelings. Once more: Sorry!


However, I do stand to the part where I say that this has been brought up before (on tracker items, on forum discussion, on IRC, and in real life conversations with users), and that there was never a proper discussion on this. At least not that I recall, but if I forget something, please be so kind and refresh my memory. 

As such, I still think it's important that we discuss this thoroughly, and without letting personal feelings get into this (which is why I feel doubly bad for violating just that with my mail earlier).


So far, we exchanged (and still are exchanging) technical points, plus not-well based claims about what our user may or may not want. The latter is something we don't really have any good data on. I therefore think that we should run a poll, and ask people about what they want. The poll should be worded carefully, as to not unintentionally bias people one way or another. Here is a suggestion for what we could ask; let's see if we can shape this into something we can all agree on, then we can put the poll online (e.g. in the forums or using LimeSurvey, other suggestions welcome):

"The following question concerns only Windows users. Please only vote if you are using ScummVM on Windows.

ScummVM on Windows currently always shows a DOS console, no matter how you start it. You can minimize this console.
Some people recently suggested that this console should be hidden by default. You would still be able to change this back (via a config dialog setting or the command liney). In addition, we would log all output into a text file. Please tell us what you think about this:
 () I prefer that you leave things as they are: Always show the DOS console.
 () I prefer that you hide the console by default
 () I prefer that you hide the console by default, but only if there is a hotkey to show/hide it on the fly
 () I do not care either way.
"

Strictly speaking, a single question will always incur some bias, as it is too limited to properly map all user thoughts and wishes. A longer survey might be a better route to go... With "overlapping" questions like
- "Did you know that ScummVM always opens a DOS console window?"
- "Do you like that ScummVM always opens a DOS console window?"
- "Does the DOS console annoy you sometimes?"
- "Would you prefer if we did not show the DOS console by default?"
- "Did the console window help you to trouble shoot problems in the past?"
-- "If the answer was yes, do you think a log file would have helped you equally much?"
- ...

(Of course there are specialists who are trained for creating surveys in such a way that bias as canceled out as much as possible. And other people who trained to achieve exactly the opposite, too ;).



> I actually added optional code to allow a no console Windows build, with 
> output redirected to log files, after the initial feature request 
> (#1093939).
> 
> Also since ScummVM is open source, there is nothing stopping anyone 
> compiling a Windows build, with the console disabled, and even providing 
> that to other users.

Sure, but this is not about what people can do, this is about what we do with our official release builds (and to a lesser degree also with our daily builds). About the default.



Cheers,
Max