[Scummvm-devel] Dropping Windows 9x/ME support

Tue Mar 8 21:34:16 CET 2016

My 2 cents....

We should drop Win9x support if and only if it starts making trouble for us
to keep the build up and running. We can run the automated parts of the
build/test and deliver on as-is basis. If people complain we can then, and
only then, fix the problem and integrate the fix into mainstream
development. This way we don't leave users apart from playing their
favourite games just because they have an old computer.

If Win9x starts to make trouble and cumbersome to mantain, we can try to
find a volunteer for this (I'm a volunteer on this, btw) or we can just
drop it and justify why we are dropping but always leave the door open for
anyone who wants to work in this.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Simon Sawatzki <SimSaw at gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> personally I still have a retro PC and would find it a nice-to-have if
> ScummVM is still supported on Windows 9x/ME. Some time ago when I last
> tried ScummVM, I noticed  however that the normal EXE build won't run but
> only a specific compilation with several modern features removed. I haven't
> checked whether this is still the case.
>
> I don't have a strong opinion against dropping support. However, I would
> have found it nice if dropping the support would have been delayed until
> The Last Express was fully supported in ScummVM. :) On the other hand,
> this may never happen.
>
> It would be nice if a sort of "goodbye" last version for Windows 9x/ME  would
> be created and if the cut would be well documented in the commit history.
>
> Kind regards
> Simon Sawatzki
>
> *Gesendet:* Montag, 07. März 2016 um 10:19 Uhr
> *Von:* "Filippos Karapetis" <bluegr at gmail.com>
> *An:* "scummvm-devel devel" <scummvm-devel at lists.sourceforge.net>
> *Betreff:* Re: [Scummvm-devel] Dropping Windows 9x/ME support
> If we are forced to use ancient toolchains to maintain support for Win9x,
> then I fully support the idea of dropping support for this platform
> altogether, or to create a separate toolchain just for this.
>
> After all, we have a separate toolchain and build target for the old OS X
> builds (although these are BE...).
>
> I really don't think that anyone is using Win9x any more, other than in
> really ancient PCs. Nowadays, you can get a Raspberry Pi 3 for $35 or a
> Raspberry Pi Zero for $5, so there's really no compelling reason to use
> ancient hardware with Win9x these days.
>
> If you're still doubtful, do a web search for OS usage, e.g. this
> wikipedia article:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
>
> If you read stats on Windows version usage, you'll see that anything older
> than XP is basically non-existent nowadays (and for good reason). Also,
> there isn't any decent browser that works under Windows 9x any more:
>
> http://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/modern-browsers-for-windows-98-systems-363040/
>
> So, again the only hardware that people would run ScummVM with Win9x would
> be very (very) old 486 or Pentium PCs with 32MB of RAM, but you can get a
> system that's many orders of magnitude faster than that for $5 (Raspberry
> Pi Zero).
>
> Thus, I really don't see why we should maintain support for operating
> systems that are 18-21 years old now, and noone's using them, since there
> are tons of very cheap and vastly superior alternative options.
>
> Regards
> Filippos
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Travis Howell <kirben at optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/03/2016 10:08 PM, Eugene Sandulenko wrote:
>> > On 5 March 2016 at 23:48, Travis Howell <kirben at optusnet.com.au
>> > <mailto:kirben at optusnet.com.au>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Only for release builds, and only if no major code changes are
>> required
>> >     for continued Windows 9x/ME support. I would have to provide the
>> >     additional build, as I doubt buildbot has the disk space for another
>> >     large tool chain.
>> > We have 2 buildbots now (another one is in preps), and that another one
>> > has twice disk space that our main one. Thus, if it is possibble to set
>> > up a chain, that would be lovely.
>>
>> Basically the tool chain and extra libraries offered on the current
>> MinGW compile guide on the ScummVM wiki, but I doubt they could be just
>> swapped into a cross-compiler environment.
>>
>> >     I don't think this will be viable in the long term though, since
>> ScummVM
>> >     will move to SDL2 in the future, which completely lacks any support
>> for
>> >     Windows 9x/ME.
>> >
>> > We are discussing switching to SDL2 as primary backend, but there are no
>> > plans to drop SDL1 support, thus some ports like Win9x/ME, could still
>> > use SDL1.
>>
>> That is good to know, as it would make future builds for Windows 9x/ME
>> much easier, if they were to continue for release builds.
>>
>> > Can we now try to do the following:
>> >
>> > As I understand it is matter of toolchain, so we mark current build as
>> > Win95/ME+, then create another build with the new toolchain, and name it
>> > scummvm-1.8.0a, and mark is as WinXP+. By doing this now we could start
>> > gathering statistics on downloads already now, and by 1.9.0 make an
>> > informed decision.
>>
>> It would be best to wait for ScummVM 1.8.1, to be on the safe side. I
>> just switched to updated tool chain (GCC 4.9.3) for MinGW, recompiling
>> all required libraries due to ABI changes, and I would rather these
>> builds have a little more overall testing.
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
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-- 
Daniel

"Let us change our traditional attitude to the construction of programs.
Instead of imagining that our main task is to instruct a computer what to
do, let us concentrate rather on explaining to human beings what we want a
computer to do." (Donald Knuth)

"Yes, technogeeks can be funny, even if only to each other." (
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/science/humor/)"

"Man is driven to create; I know I really love to create things. And while
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(Yukihiro Matsumoto, a.k.a. ``Matz'')
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