[Scummvm-devel] GOG-Affiliate program, recent additions to website

clem clemty at gmail.com
Fri Jan 23 15:05:31 CET 2009


Johannes Schickel <lordhoto <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Actually it would be interesting to hear why the template changes are bad?

The current forum template is based on some indy-inspired template, the indy
template is based on the official phpBB2 subsilver template. 

What subsilver and most templates based off it have in common is a graphical
logo on the top left side, and a number of links for using the forum on the
right side. The graphical logo usually links to the forum index.
The space where "ScummVM website" "Forum index" etc are located is usually
unoccupied.

When the current template was originally made there was a discussion whether the
scummvm logo should link to the forum index or to the website. The solution I
always found most fitting was to not link the image to anything, but have the
two (and just the two!) possibilities as text next to it.

Now a problem with this design is that if your resolution/browser window is not
wide enough, the left text (nav links) will be pushed against the right links
(forum usage). Therefore (in my opinion) it is imperative that there are as few
links as possible up there.

>From a layout point of view, I thought the "contact us" link not to be ideally
placed since it takes up space there. 

>From a logical point of view, neither "contact us" nor an advertisement make
sense in this line: they are not related to using the forum, they are not two
"large entities" like scummvm website VS forum. 

I have probably spent more time looking at the forum templates than any ScummVM
team member; maybe it is self-righteous to say this, but I consider this
template my brainchild. I have thought for hours where to place which piece of
information. I tried to leave out meaningless information (do you really need to
know which users are currently online on the main page? who cares who the latest
registered nick is?). Just because things can be displayed does not mean they
should. That's what I mean when I use the word 'bloated'

I hope this explains why I feel quite strong when visible changes to the
template are introduced. Nobody is obliged to ask for my opinion; I am not a
ScummVM team member. But it would have been nice to know about things like that
beforehand nevertheless.

> 
> I didn't notice anything about that, so you are saying a moderator 
> removed your post without any word? That does sound bad and I can 
> understand that one might be a bit angry about it, especially when he is 
> in closer contact to most (all?) of our moderators / team members. But 
> as I got it Eugene wrote you a mail discussing the points mentioned in 
> your post? One might argue about whether he should've just wrote a 
> public discussion mail to -devel or not, but at least it doesn't really 
> look like the points "miraculously vanished".

Yes, sev removed the post and quoted it in an email to me; this is the passage
from the topmost post in this discussion:

> First thing I am really puzzled with is why did you post this message
> on forums? There is scummvm-devel for such things, then there is e-mail
> after all. So I took liberty and removed your post from here, and
> quoting it below with my comments.

The offending passages could have been edited out in my post. sev could have
asked me before just removing the post. But this way it looked like there was
never any post at all. 
Did I violate any forum rule with my post? And even if, in most other instances
(apart from spam and repeated offenders) posts get redacted, and not quietly
deleted.

Yes, this does make me angry; I am sure it was not intended that way but it
still makes me feel like my criticism is removed from a public place, and it is
attempted to move the discussion into private email where the other party can
wait until I have vented off steam and it can then be quietly buried.

> >> No problem. Give me a nice-looking replacement and I will publish it.
> >>     
> >
> > My suggestion is to remove the GOG link, remove the banner from the main
> > page and have the respective link(s) on "where to buy games" on the wiki:
> > http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Where_to_buy_games
> >   
> 
> Why should we remove the banner from the main page etc. when we have an 
> affiliate program with GOG?
> I guess the button could be changed to something which matches the 
> "Support this project" button size wise. With that we might have a 
> slightly nicer and consistent look.

I see your point.

Originally I said I don't like the changes, and the reply was basically "make it
better" - but why should I re-design a banner/button which I don't like to see
in the first place? So my reply was saying to get rid of it altogether. This
might have been a case of rethoric spiraling out of control. If the button fits
the sourceforge button in style, why not keep it?

My main concern still is the forum template itself.

> 
> > To ask more provocatively, why is there just the GOG banner up? Why not also
> > make the forum link to Amazon, ebay, and the other sites selling ScummVM-
> > supported games? Because it does not generate revenue? 
> >   
> 
> I guess there are different reasons for that:
> 
> (1) GOG mentions us on their http://www.gog.com/en/thanks/ page.

Does that justify a bold link from the forum, though? I also mention ScummVM on
my website, but I do not get a bold link on top of the page for that.

> 
> (2) They do bundle game data files with our ScummVM releases. (legally 
> that is)

As far as I know, Amazon also does sell Broken Sword.

> 
> (3) We're now having an "affiliation" program with them.
> 

Amazon also does have an affiliate program for all I know.

> (4) We get revenue (which is nice of them, since they do not really have 
> to do this) when people buy games after following the button link.

Yes, but therefore it seems to me the link got prominently featured on the forum
because it generates revenue, and not necessarily because it is in the interest
of the user. Maybe I'm overreacting here, but that's how I see it.

Would the link be as prominent if they didn't pay up?

> Again I don't see what's bad about changing the web design? Is it now 
> "bloated"? I don't think so. As stated above the button size and 
> position could be changed slightly, but by itself I don't see anything 
> bad about it.

See above

> 
> > Again, more provocatively asked: people sending out bulk email could as
> > well claim that their message otherwise could go unnoticed. That does not 
> > make them right. But at least I can delete/filter unsolicited email,
> > whereas I'm stuck looking at the link at the forum.
> >   
> 
> I wonder how you can visit any modern internet site then. They are all 
> full of links, which I might don't want to see.

I have no problems visiting the majority of websites on the net. Most of them
have ads etc when I first visit them, so I'm used to it. However I feel I need
to voice my opinion when a change is made to a website I've been visiting for 3+
years on a daily basis.

> But actually we have a 
> good reason to show the "Buy Supported Games" link there: it gives users 
> an easy way to access games. Many questions on the forums are related on 
> how to obtain supported games, thus I think that's enough justification 
> to add a visible link for a site.

You're right. But does it have to be bold? Is buying supported games more
important than navigating to the forum index or to the main website? (or even
more important than to contact the team?)

> 
> >>> In conclusion, I liked the original design better. Any chance to get
> >>> back to that?
> >>>       
> 
> Being provocative right now: You are asking us to design our website 
> after how one user thinks it should be? That sounds pretty much like a 
> bad attempt of a joke.

No. What I asked for was the opinion by other (forum)users on the forum. What
got me fired up is that my post was quietly removed by the person who made the
website changes. You say that I am just one user, but how am I supposed to know
how others see this issue? That sounds like a joke to me.

> We have good reasons for designing the website 
> like it is.

As did I (see above).

> 
> (Please note that this is no personal attack)
> 

No worries :)

> > Yes, I would prefer to have both the button from the main page and the
> > link from the forums removed (and the "contact us" link, or at least move
> > that to the bottom of the page). I don't have that much of a problem with
> > the news item/the announcement on the forum (other than it's a pretty
> > thinly veiled advertisement), but at least I don't have to look at that
> > constantly.
> >   
> 
> Judging from that your main problem is that we do a advertisement for 
> GOG?

My main problem is that changes are made without discussing it beforehand, that
the content does not fit there, and that the placement of an advertisement in
such a manner makes it look like it belongs to the "ordinary" navigational
links, and not to some other website.

> And why do you want the "contact us" link moved? In my opinion it's 
> placed nicely there, it's easy to see. If we would move the "contact us" 
> to the bottom of the page much fewer people would notice it.

Pretty much each website has the "contact" link at another place; by now I'm
used to hitting ctrl-f and searching the page for "contact"

The majority of websites I know have the copyright/contact info on the bottom of
the page.





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