[Scummvm-devel] Windows console

Max Horn max at quendi.de
Tue Oct 26 23:14:24 CEST 2010


Am 26.10.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Travis Howell:

> On 26/10/2010 7:56 PM, Max Horn wrote:
>> However, I do stand to the part where I say that this has been brought up before (on tracker items, on forum discussion, on IRC, and in real life conversations with users), and that there was never a proper discussion on this. At least not that I recall, but if I forget something, please be so kind and refresh my memory.
>> 
>> As such, I still think it's important that we discuss this thoroughly, and without letting personal feelings get into this (which is why I feel doubly bad for violating just that with my mail earlier).
>> 
>> 
>> So far, we exchanged (and still are exchanging) technical points, plus not-well based claims about what our user may or may not want. The latter is something we don't really have any good data on. I therefore think that we should run a poll, and ask people about what they want. The poll should be worded carefully, as to not unintentionally bias people one way or another. Here is a suggestion for what we could ask; let's see if we can shape this into something we can all agree on, then we can put the poll online (e.g. in the forums or using LimeSurvey, other suggestions welcome):
> 
> No, any internet poll would only cover a small amount of users. 
> Specifically users who have online access, and actively monitor the 
> ScummVM web site. Please don't turn this into another pointless online 
> petition.

Any opinion poll always only reaches a fraction of all people, that's an inherent property of opinion polls. But if we do it right, I don't see why we shouldn't get a couple hundred responses. And while those of course will not tell us what every single ScummVM user likes or dislikes, they can give us a quite good estimation.

Anyway, so: We are discussing an issue that some people (well, me at least) think is bad for users, which you dispute, but at the same time you refuse to ask those very users based on the argument that we won't be able to reach every of them?

So... I did at least talk to some users about what they like or dislike; admittedly far to few to give a representative picture. But you seem refuse to even talk to them, but still think you know what's best for them? Hm.


> Besides any poll of this type, could set a dangerous precedent for 
> ScummVM. Since we never add features or games, based on requests.

It was actually a meant as a gesture of good will towards you. Because it currently looks as if we are not able to come up with a constructive consensus, and then the only alternatives I see are either some kind of poll; or else it'll be the team leaders who'll make the final call, and I'd prefer to avoid that.

Anyway, I still have not completely given up on the faint hope for an agreement. You did raise a good point regarding many engines using warning() to send messages to the users, e.g. with report about save failures (sometimes these will also be shown with a GUI dialog, but usually with less detail than the warnings provide). This is a typical disease of software; developers tend to be very lazy when it comes to writing good error handling (I don't claim to be an exception ;). This is bad for the user. (Note: I do not agree that this is a justification for showing the console by default.). Anyway, this is something we should address. I wonder what you would say if we were to "fix" all these warnings to be properly reported to the user, without relying on a DOS console (which, by the way, is not usually visible on every other port, i.e. all those poor users have to get along without it already).


Bye,
Max



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